About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Hey guys, I am about to buy my first shotgun (and am pretty excited about it). I have my sights set on a Remington 870 Tactical 18". I am a noob to shotguns, but have basic knowledge. Seems like the 870 has a pretty solid reputaion, but I would like to hear the opinion of the much respected GIM members. Here is a link to the model that I am looking at:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...=140916274#PIC

Thanks a lot and I look forward to your guys' advice. :wavey:

GG

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

You cannot go wrong with a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500.

You made a good choice. :ok:

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Thank you. That definitely seems to be the general consensus on the web. Price isn't much of an option for this particular purchase, so I am pretty open to other ideas. With that being said, if that 870 Tactical 18" is a REALLY good shotgun, then it will probably be the one I go with.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Rem 870 is a solid choice. I own one and would never get rid of it.
Mossberg 500 does a couple things right the 870 overlooks. The safety and the pump release (and the sights too depending on the specific models you are comparing).
I personally don't like the feel of the pump on a Mossie 500.

Those 2 are the standby home defense shotties and are comparably priced.

The one you are looking at is a solid baseline model with a few upgrades. However, it is overpriced if you are seriosuly looking at that specific auction. With the extended mag and Knox stock you should be sitting around $450-$500. Deals can be found, though. No matter your choice outfit it with a decent strap.

Also, practice practice practice. A pump shotgun can deliver stellar reliability and is immediately easy to operate for the money but the actual mechanics of quick reloads, clearing jams and other tactical measures require a great deal of practice.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Thanks a lot for the reply and the advice. If the 870 Tactical is a "baseline" model, what would be a more showcase model to look at? I would like to stick with an 18" barrel, fwiw. Thanks again SLV>GLV.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

It is actually a Remington 870 Express with a mag extension and Knoxx stock. The Express is the baseline of the Remington shotgun series. It is also the most popular and sees the most parts and accouterments. The police model is an upgrade to the express on several levels (http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/art...Pol6-30-05.pdf). Other models include the Wingmaster, which opts for metal/wood components throughout, and the Marine which uses nickel/synthetic components for weather resistance.

Edit to say it was a misnomer to imply that the Express gets more pieces parts because, in a perfect world, 870 parts are interchangeable across models. This is not entirely true but mostly very true.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

The location of the safety seems to be an issue for some people. I prefer the 590 safety which is behind the trigger guard. The 870 safety is forward the trigger guard. That's a reach with the trigger finger IMO. Some might prefer that. I prefer to keep my trigger finger on the side of the gun until ready to shoot and use my second finger to control the safety.

Other than that personal preference, you can't go wrong with either gun.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Gotcha. So, would the "Police" model probably be the best 870 that's offered? I looked at the link you posted and the differences between the Express and the Police are definitely pretty appealing. I found a Police model on Gun Broker for $615.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

I put at least 2,000 round through my 870 hunting and shooting clays, it still functions flawlessly. I bagged a couple dove with it this morning. You won't be sorry you got the 870.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

It sure seems like the 870 is a gun wth few complaints, I like that. I was also looking at the Benelli M4, but it seems a bit pricey for a noob. I am trying to figure out what the top-of-the-line 870 model is. Perhaps the "police" model?

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

If cost is no importance and you're settled on a 870 then get the Police model. Personally, I dig the nickel parts on the Marine model but the parkerizing on the Police is effective without turning the thing into a mirror.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Very nice. I have never owned one though, and never had the honor of firing one either. I started out with my fathers breakaway single shot, and graduated to a http://neaca.com/images/Group_Semi_1...chester_1_.JPG

Winchester model 1400 semi-auto shotgun. I would like to someday have a rackable scattergun, as it seems like it would be serious fun to shoot.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Got my hands on a used Ithica the other day. Tear down and cleaning is a SOB plus the block pin was broken so that is a weak spot.

Mossberg uses too much plastic in my opinion. and I'm not completely satisfied with the feel of the gun when shooting it. It is just a feeling, but when I rack mine i don't follow through with it far enough leaving the gun out of battery, and the clays crashing into the ground instead of shattered in the air.

I like my 870 the best. IMO it is the best shotgun to buy on the cheap.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

If used for self defense, the racking sound is priceless for intimidation purposes.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

You really can't go wrong with any of the Remington or Mossberg pumps... whatever you get will outlive you.

The Benelli semi auto's are sweet. While I've not shot the M4, I have used the older M1 and can attest to it comfortably blasting 8-9 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger. I've also used another Benelli semi a few times for trap and really like it. The felt recoil on the semi-auto much less than on the pump action, so you can do a triple tap in about one second and stay on target. I don't know all the specifics, but an instructor I work with regularly, says the M1 is preferable to the newer Benelli M's. One feature I do know, is that you can actually load 9 rounds into the M1 -- 1 in the chamber, 7 in the magazine, plus 1 more in the receiver in between the tube and the chamber (hope that made sense).

I have a 20" 870 Express for home defense and have put a couple 1000 rounds through it in training and shooting sporting clays. When it was new, I did need to polish the chamber, because cheap wallyworld bulk pack ammo would get stuck in the chamber and not eject until it cooled off. That only happened when firing 7 rounds straight and the gun was really hot. After I spent about 20 minutes polishing the chamber with 0000 steel wool, a dowel and power drill, that problem went away.

Whatever you decide to get, it'll be fun. :yippee:

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

I think I have 7 Rem 870 pumps. My suggestion....buy an 870 Express.....field gun with 26 - 28" barrel anb changable RemChoke (they all have this these days).....then you can do more with the gun....hunt, skeet, etc.....

Then for $120 you can get an 18" barrel.....you can change barrels in 1 minute with no tools.

This is what I'd do if I had just 1 870.

I also prefer the black synthetic stock over wood...and it looks more badassed!

You do not need more than the standard 5 round capacity....you can top off the gun on the run easily if you need more than 5 shots.

Also, if you will only have 1 shot gun....make it a 12 gauge. Most will come chambered in 2.75" and 3.0" these days....which is plenty.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Your other comments were great but I'm going to contend this one.

The magazine extension makes sense.

First off, it's not about need but about want. I do not want to have to reload my shotgun however many more times I will over the course of using it that I must because I'm loading 2 less shells by not having an extended mag. I do want my magazine to be the same length as my barrel; it is more pleasing to my eye what with the symmetry of such an arrangement.

Secondly, assuming you really like limiting yourself to 5 rounds when you can have 7, having the extended mag would keep less tension on the spring thereby increasing reliability and longevity. Since a proper home defense shotgun remains loaded 24/7 this is a consideration.

I would concede your point on the drum magazines, though. But, yes, I am arguing strictly for argument's sake, here.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

I love my Benelli M-2, but overpaid for it. I have about 800 rounds through it, goes bang every time you pull the trigger. 18 inch stock, 5 round magazine, reliable as the 870 Remington, but more expensive. I purchased a straight stock for $90 on e-bay, paid another $150 for a slug barrel on gunbroker.com (the barrel would be $480 from the factory, no need for that, with all the spare parts you can find on gunbroker.com)

The inertia driven system means clean up is a breeze, not like the gas recoil guns which have to be cleaned after 100 or so rounds or they start to give you problems. Cleaning a gas gun is not easy. I will take my Benelli M-2 over any Remington 870 if the SHTF. Benelli M-2's are used extensively in three gun matches for a reason.

Here is mine:

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showp...81&postcount=1

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Why don't you guys keep your home defense weapon loaded?

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

This is why

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

870 Non Tactical....Pratical, it will do the job.
http://goldismoney.info/forums/pictu...&pictureid=281

GG consider getting a weapon light for your gun, it can give you an edge when you life may depend on it, or help you identify things that go bump in the night.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Oh yeah, I get it. Leprechauns! j/k :biggrin:

Nah, I understand what you mean. Personally I think adorable baby girls are all the more reason to keep the defensive weapons loaded and handy but that's a decision that every parent has to make for themselves.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

My comments were in regards to using the shotgun for everything....hunting, skeet, etc...and also self defense......if strictly a fighting gun....yes, more rounds are better.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

It only takes a fraction of a second to rack one from mag tube into chamber. To your point...you do give up 1 round of capacity leaving on an empty chamber.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Ditto....I have the Express Combo...Like getting two guns for the price of one.

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ess_combos.asp

The 21" rifled barrel is on the gun and the smooth bore 26" barrel is on the left.

http://goldismoney.info/forums/pictu...pictureid=1408

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Make your first shotgun purchase your last (unless you want spares! :smile:)
Spend a few extra $$$ and get the "marine magnum" version of the 870.
It has electroless nickle plating and is completely waterproof - it's designed for on-ship use at sea. Damned near maintenance free, it'll last you forever in whatever weather conditions you might find yourself in.

Sure... it's silvery instead of tactical black, but that's overrated anyway. You can always spraypaint it with black high-temp paint if you really just HAVE to have the "tacti-cool" look.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

The 870 is a great choice. I prefer it over the Mossberg because breaking it down is easier, and the safety thing is what I am used to. I would probably get mixed up with a Mossberg because I have shot thousands of rounds through 870's, so I am used to it.

I own an 870 police, express magnum, super mag, and a Marine Magnum. By far, the marine magnum is my favorite. The police model is way overpriced for what you really get, although they last forever(but so does the regular express).

If I was going to spend around $500-$600, I would opt for the marine magnum and never worry about rust again!
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...s/DSCN3262.jpg

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

There is that but my point is a lot can happen in a fraction of a second.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

My exact same shotgun I have. Mine was a little cheaper since I bought the same shotgun and later installed the knoxx specops stock. The stock does wonders for the recoil, trust me. Just becareful about putting your face too close to the receiver when "aiming". There's a spring in the stock that allows the whole gun to move back a bit then return to it's original position.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Thanks a lot guys! I really appreciate all of the help. You guys have some really nice shotguns. I have pretty much narrowed it down to the Remington 870 Police Magnum with the 18" barrel. I will continue to do more research. Thanks again everybody!

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Gordon check out Bachman's Pawn and Gun in Dallas (through phone or mail order, they don't have a website). (214) 351-0527.

They're advertisng in Shotgun News the 870 HD (home defense), for 309.95. It's an express with a 7 shot tube and an 18" bbl., all factory. They have other models available, I think the one with the fancy pistol grip stockset is about 400.

If money is no object check out Vang Comp, Scattergun Technologies, or Wilson Combat (who bought out Scattergun) 870 conversions. I would NEVER pay for one of those things, but they have some cool features, coolest to me are the trigger jobs.

BTW, top o the line for the 870 is the Wingmaster, and all of mine are built off old Wingmasters... no plastic in 'em.

And as was stated above, a shotgun isn't a magical weapon that can't miss, once you get one TRAIN, TRAIN, TRAIN!!!

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Even if it IS loaded, there are situations where I'd be willing to give up a round if I thought the threat would leave w/o me pulling the trigger.

Without even going into the legal/emotional mess, can you imagine the physical MESS left after shooting anything with a load of buckshot INSIDE your house?

I'm no proponent of slide racking as the be all end all that some say it is, but I've leveled a rifle or pistol at more than one person who didn't seem to mind. I've NEVER racked a slide and had the other party ignore it.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

QWAK,Personaly I bought a used Mosburg 500 at a PAWN SHOP for $200.00 then bought an 18" barrel from the factory and a folding stock,tactical flash light and lazor sight and a sling! Total just under $500.00 and it is AWSOME!:yes::36_1_25:

I can use the long barrel it came with for hunting but keep the 18" for "JUST in CASE" home protection!:yes:

PS: Mostly I use mine for TRIMING TREES that get in the way of mt TV and COMPUTER SAT DISHES -- LOTS of FUN triming trees!:wink::36_1_25::yes:

The locals think I am just a little CRAZY :confused_ma::36_1_25::10_1_19: ---- I like IT that way!!:yes::111::4_1_72::shine:

the DUCK :15_1_70v:

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Here's one I built off an old 1973 WM...

Before...

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/g...att/before.jpg

After...

http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/g...att/After2.jpg

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Call me old fashioned but I'm from the school that doesn't pull a weapon unless we intend to use it. If somebody needs shooting they'll be shot, if they don't need shooting they'll get Johnny Law.

Yes, I can. I'm very familiar with the terminal effects of a variety of weapons. If that is a concern you may want the shell in the chamber to be a beanbag round or similar.

I still don't understand the purpose of pointing a firearm at someone you don't intend to shoot. I see a lot more ways that can cause problems than solve them.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

QWAK,The true power of a WEAPON is not in USING IT :36_1_30::452: it is in the OTHER GUY KNOWING you GOT IT and CAN USE IT!:yes::shine:

IF you pull the trigger -- YOU LOSE!:yes: The other guy may lose his life BUT make no mistake YOU will loose somthing TOO!:thinkey::shine:

the DUCK :15_1_70v:

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Yes - YOU ARE EL "DUCKO," that's for sure....:111:

And your advice is SOoooooooooooo TRUE - if you have a pump shotgun that sliding sound ker-plunk is like a MORTAL call to the human soul.

I do remember a few "war" stories. :biggrin:

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

What you're talking about is the use of intimidation. You don't even need a weapon for that, a carefully cultivated reputation will do better and reach further in time and space. Threats that are likely to be carried out are a lot more intimidating than threats that are unlikely to be carried out. How many times can you rack a shotgun till the local meth head figures out you never shoot? What about when you're not home? Force of character is a more useful deterrent than merely displaying a weapon.

The true power of a weapon is in making you as strong or stronger than your enemy when a physical confrontation is forced upon you. A firearm isn't something to be used as a prop, it's something to be used to eliminate an imminent threat. In olden days many a blade was engraved with the motto "Do Not Draw Me Without Reason/Do Not Sheath Me Without Honor."

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

:bear_rolleyes:

Aside from the assinine short sightedness of your arguements, you don't have a very good handle on the legalities of shooting people.

Thanks anyway, though.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

The legalities vary from state to state, in some cases from municipality to municipality. Is discussing that in minutia something you're interested in doing?

I have no great personal interest in how someone stores their weapon or who they point it at. I do think the old shotgunner's wive's tale has more potential to create problems than solve them, but whatever. Click-clack away and I sincerely hope it works perfectly for any of you who have to try it. I also hope you never find yourself in your home behind someone who already has a gun in his hand when you have to go "click clack." There's all kinds of scared. There's running scared, crying scared, fainting scared... all kinds. There's even attacking scared. Tactics > superstition.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

If you haven't decided yet, I'll inject another quick $.02

The only complaint I have of the 870 is I sold my first one when I was a youngin headed out to sea for the first time. I've since replaced it with an 870 tactical. Contemplating the Remington SuperCell recoil pad to hopefully help my shoulder after blowing off some steam out in the desert.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

The Supercell pad is well worth the $20-$25.
I've shot 300 rounds with my 12ga 870, during some 4 hour training sessions, with no soreness at all. When it had the stock recoil pad, my shoulder would start complaining after about 100 rounds.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

I have the Remington SuperCell recoil pad and I like it, it is a definite improvement over the hard rubber original equipment. I have no other experience with other recoil pads to make an objective assessment.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

I do. If you had read my previous post, I lamented that I could not make the racking sound because my shotgun is semi-auto.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

I called around to a lot of my local firearms outlets and it seems that nobody has the Remington 870 Police Magnum. One shop did say that they had the Remington 870 Tactical in stock for $435 cash. I wouldn't mind buying that one, but I really had my sights set on the Police Magnum.

Does anybody have any experience utilizing Gun Broker 9www.gunbroker.com)? I have never used it and I do see that they have the gun that I am looking for.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Gordon, just buy it from impact or Bud's and have it shipped to a local FFL. That way you get exactly what you want with no risks.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

I've bought ammo using gunbroker a few times. Comparable to an ebay experience, IMO. I have heard great things about Bud's, too.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Honestly, i am of the opinion that tacticool looks are a liability. keep in mind the fact that you are likely going to have the criminal suit go in your favor if you obeyed the rules, but the criminal you shot, or some survivor, or somebody is gonna haul your ass through a civil suit. in that instance it's not a yes/no issue. they are dolling out degrees of culpability, and using emotional tactics on the jury.....
imagine the prosecutor holding up your shotgun to show to the jury:

1. It's a sporter style, wooden stocked shotgun, that looks like your grandpa gave it to you years ago, and has a duck etched into it.
2. it's your black Saiga12 with 20rd drum, vertical foregrip, holo sight, and bayonet...

Which is gonna go better for you?
:ok:

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

What do you think about the 870 Tactical? I might go with that one instead of the Police Magnum since it seems nobody local has the Police Mag.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Does anybody else have any experiences ordering a firearm online and having it shipped to a FFL? If so, what site do you recommend? I am a noob at this.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Not to denigrate your choice, but have you gone to any shops in the area and held them to get the feel? Unless you are dead set on that model, I would recommend going into a place that has everything, like Gander mtn or something like it, and get up close and personal before you buy. You may buy something that you didn't even know you wanted. After you find it, write down all the specs and then try to find it cheaper. :coolbeer:

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

My 870 Express 18 inch with short stock. Recently added a 2-shot mag extension for balance.

Holds 6+1. Handles fast in tight quarters. Perfect for a home defense shotgun.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Gordon, I've purchased dozens of firearms either off boards, from shops, or through gunbroker. No (major) problems.

The key is finding a local FFL who knows the law, how to handle transfers, and customer service. I'd try a gunboard for your locale to find a local FFL. If the FFL sounds like they're scatterbrained, or tells you about "laws" that aren't on the books, keep looking. Expect to pay 30+ bucks for the transfer.

My local gunshop does them for 20 bucks, but I drive 30 minutes and pay 35 bucks to use a shop that isn't a pain to deal with.

The deal will go something like this. You arrange to buy the shotgun from X co, have your FFL fax or email a copy of their license to X co. Then you pay X co. They'll mail the shotgun to your local FFL, along with your name/contact info. The shotgun arrives, the FFL contacts you, you pick it up and pay their fee. You fill out paperwork just like you bought the shottie from the FFL.

It's not as confusing as it sounds.:biggrin::confused_ma:

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Buying online shipped to FFL is no problemo.
Gunbroker auctions are overpriced. Find a seller who is a dealer and call him directly and you'll likely get a discount from the listed prices (my experience). Also, shop out your local FFL for the lowest transfer fees. Once you've settled on a FFL get his Phone and Fax info and let him know you intend to have a weapon shipped to him; then provide the information to the seller who should know exactly how to proceed. Keep in touch with your local FFL throughout the process.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

I have no complaints, it was exactly what I was after and it happened to be the last 870 in stock locally. Easy to strip down and clean. Packs quite a whallop which is why I will be picking up the recoil pad ASAP. I get a little sore after running a couple dozen rounds through it.

If you can peruse them locally I recommend trying them out, but for home defense/plinking I would say I am satisfied if I had purchased this gub sight unseen.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Here is a type that no one has discussed, it is a Benelli Nova pump. It holds 7 rounds and will chamber 2-3/4", 3" and 3-1/2" 12 gage shells. The 3-1/2, 12 gage round was originally made to outperform the old 10 gage, and it does so. This isn't pretty like my other shotguns but it is oh so functional. It has "ghost ring" sights.

It usually is filled up with 3" OO (no kids here) and, along with a 16 round capacity .40 cal, is the only gun here not kept locked up.

I bought this a little over 2 years ago for less than $400 including tax.

There is a comparison test on this on Gun Tests Mag, I'll see if I can find it in the archives and post it.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2544/...c9349697_b.jpg

Edit: Here is the Gun Test, it is of a "Super Nova", a more sporting version of my plain type. The main difference that I can tell is mine doesn't take choke tubes, sights and is black, not camo.

September 2009
SuperMag Battle: Remington NitroMag vs. Benelli SuperNova
In this showdown of mighty 31⁄2-inch-chamber pumpguns, we encounter a camo-clad Benelli that is one of the best of its type we�ve seen. However, the same can�t be said for the Model 887.

Somewhere in the neighborhood of 1988, the last "new" production shotshell cartridge of any note was introduced by Federal Cartridge Company: the 31⁄2-inch 12 gauge. It was the Mossberg 835 slide-action that helped launch it, and it was the proliferation of the long shell that sealed the demise of the 10-gauge shotgun, as you can actually get more performance out of a 12-gauge 31⁄2-inch load,
Remington NitroMag
Below left: We had a lot of problems with the new-for-2009 Remington M887, some of which are shown here. On the gun, the left arrow points to a smallish button safety that was hard to get to, our testers said. The right arrow points to a piece of sheet metal (at the back of the bolt with the large horizontal slot in it) which rattled. Center arrow: We did like the generous slide release at the front of the trigger guard. The target at left shows a pattern from the Remington M887 that reveals a significant point-of-impact problem: the 887 shot well below point of aim, even at 20 yards. The red dot shows the approximate center of the pattern.
chambering it in a shotgun that is less bulky, more versatile, and less costly to shoot than a comparable 10-gauge gun. That�s not quite obsolete, but Federal Cartridge currently lists only five 10-gauge loads, while the company offers more than 75 different 12-gauge shotshells. Whether a 31⁄2-inch 12 gauge makes a lot of sense today is another matter. The preconceived notion is that a 31⁄2-inch shell is automatically a Roman candle�but that is far from the truth. The 23⁄4-inch "baby magnum" lead shotshell has always had a 11⁄2-oz. payload. Typical steel 31⁄2-inch shells are 13⁄8-oz. to 11⁄2-oz. payloads: no heavier than many older 23⁄4-inch lead loads, much less 3-inch 12-gauge shells.

But even though standard-length shells and the guns that shoot them can certainly get the job done, we cannot deny the appeal of shotguns that will shoot 31⁄2-inch shells, in part because they will shoot nearly any 12-gauge shotshell out there. Here, we look at two of the latest and supposedly greatest of the long-chambered slide-action twelves, the Benelli SuperNova No. 20115 MAX-4 HD Camo 12 Gauge Pump, $599; and the new-for-2009 Remington M887 NitroMag No. 82500 12 Gauge, $399. We should note that Benelli offers a matte black version of the SuperNova at $499 and that Remington offers the camo version of the M887 at $532 MSRP, but the differences were so significant that finish and price were secondary issues.

Benelli SuperNova No. 20115 MAX-4 HD

Camo 31⁄2-inch 12 Gauge Pump, $599

The SuperNovaweighed right at 8 pounds unloaded and with a choke tube installed. Benelli is not known for its trigger quality, and the tested SuperNova is no exception�the trigger breaks at 7 pounds. Though not particularly crisp, it was noticeably crisper than the trigger of the Remington we shot alongside it.

During a recent 20-gauge pump-action comparison, we chided the manufacturers for omitting a shim-adjustable buttstock on less-expensive guns. But on the SuperNova, the stock was shim-adjustable for cast and drop. Having the stock easily adjustable for drop and cast with the included shims is an excellent addition�and something included on no other slide-action shotgun made today that we are aware of. Where the original Nova pioneered an over-molded, one-piece receiver and buttstock, the SuperNova, with its shim-adjustable ComforTech stock, is far better. Elsewhere, the Benelli�s action was buttery smooth compared to the Remington. Also, we found the Benelli to be far better balanced, smoother swinging, and notably softer shooting than the M887. The SuperNova had less muzzle jump and was quicker to get on that second bird, our testers said. Also, the Benelli shot to point of aim, and the M887 didn�t.

Remington NitroMag
The overall build quality of the Supernova is extremely well-done. The camo finish was without flaws, attractive and well-applied. The smooth way the barrel extension locks into the receiver screams quality and expert machining. The molded-in ridges on the stock felt good in the hands, offering a comfortable and functional gripping surface.

The more time we spent with the SuperNova, the more we liked it. If you want to remove the trigger group, the appropriate punch is built in to the magazine cap. If you want to unload your SuperNova without cycling all the shells through the magazine, the magazine cut-off is built into the forearm. What is so good about both of these features is that when you don�t use them you�ll never know they are even there.

Our only little gripe was the 7-pound trigger; just too heavy for our tastes. We asked Benelli what the spec was for Nova triggers. The reply was "5-8 pounds." So, our trigger was well within factory specification�not remotely a warranty issue. Still, when we asked, Benelli customer service said they would see if they could lighten it a bit. We decided that we would take Benelli up on the offer. Benelli turned the gun around promptly; the trigger as received back from Benelli USA breaks at 6 pounds on the nose. Not as light as we would have liked, but still a noticeable improvement and an appropriate trigger for this class of gun. The Benelli customer service response added to what we already felt was a superlative gun for the money.

Our Team Said: The Benelli shot flawlessly, comfortably, swung smoothly and steadily. Our only initial peeve was the trigger, promptly attended to by Benelli at no charge. It is an outstanding 31⁄2-inch slide-action waterfowl gun.

Remington Model 887 NitroMag 31⁄2-inch

12 Gauge Pump, $399

The tested Remington model is the all-black version of the "new for 2009" the M887 NitroMag. Where the forearm and buttstock are plastic, the barrel and the receiver are both what Remington calls "ArmorLokt" plastic molded over thin steel core components. Not only is it a plastic metal coating, it also forms the solid rib of the barrel.

Before heading to the range, we installed the supplied Remington magazine plug, which is supposed to limit the 887�s capacity to two shells in the magazine (plus one in the chamber, for a total of three) to comply with state and federal hunting regulations. We were surprised that the green Remington plastic plug was the wrong one�it easily allowed us to load three shells in the magazine (plus one in the chamber) for a total of four shells.

Most pumps exhibit some forearm play and rattle, but the NitroMag had an annoying tinny rattle coming from the action. The culprit is the sliding bolt shroud, a thin piece of metal that slides back and forth on the side of the breechblock to hide its length. It is a cosmetic piece, having nothing to do with function of the gun�and, it rattled on our gun.

We found a rough, poorly finished area on the barrel guide for the action bars�apparently, already starting to corrode. It was rough in appearance and to the touch. The side of the barrel that is bare steel, machined out to accept the eccentric bolt face, was roughly machined as well. When the barrel was slid into the receiver, there was noticeable slop. We could easily twist the barrel left and right. With the Supernova, the barrel locked perfectly in place with none of this loose fit.

The slide release on the M887 was in front of the oversized trigger guard. We liked it; it was effortless to use and just the ticket for cold, gloved hands. The safety button�small and nestled into the side of the rear of the trigger guard�is not the ticket for cold or gloved hands, our team said.

When they worked the guns� actions side by side, our testers said the Nitro887 was rougher to operate than the SuperNova�s. We had to apply what our team characterized as more-than-usual effort to get the fore end to slide backward and forward, opening and closing the action, respectively. Of course, the action did open and close when enough force was applied to the fore end. It was the opposite of the SuperNova�s slick and smooth action, in our opinion.

Out of the box, the 887 weighed in at 7.25 pounds on the nose�a clear three quarters of a pound less than the Supernova. However, the lighter 887 gave up what could have been a handling advantage because the NitroMag was too muzzle heavy, our testers said.

The Remington�s trigger was extremely mushy, but it broke at about 4.6 pounds�far lighter than the Supernova. The Remington came with one choke tube, a standard Remchoke Modified piece. We patterned the 887 and were disappointed to discover that it did not shoot close to point of aim. The patterns it threw were about 5 inches low at just 20 yards.

During our shooting sessions, we looked carefully at Remington�s claims that this 887 is "our [the company�s] softest shooting pump gun ever," due in part to the company�s SuperCell Recoil Pad. Measuring actual recoil is a fairly easy physics problem, with the major variable being gun weight�that is, a lighter gun will recoil more than a heavier gun, assuming the same shotshells are used in both. So, with the 887 weighing about 10% less than the Benelli, we wondered how Remington could achieve its claim that the 887 produced "54% less recoil." We gave Remington the benefit of the doubt in that statement, assuming the company was talking about perceived recoil; that is, the shooter�s perception of how hard or softly a gun kicks. Stock drop at the comb and heel, stock cast, stock pitch, gun weight, and recoil pad quality all have a role to play in how the shooter perceives recoil at the shoulder. So a subjective side-by-side test is the only way to assess perceived recoil. Shoot, switch guns, shoot again�a 54% difference in recoil would be clearly noticeable.

We shot the 887 alongside the SuperNova, as well as a Beretta 391 Urika 2, switching from gun to gun with identical shells. Short version: In the view of our testers, the 887 was harsher kicking with more muzzle flip than the Benelli SuperNova (which in turn had sharper recoil than the gas-operated Beretta 391). Still, we think the SuperCell is a good recoil pad, far better at attenuating recoil than the skimpy rubber pad on the Beretta 391 we recently evaluated. In sum, we believe the 7.25-pound Remington kicks just like any other 7.25-pound pump-gun with a decent recoil pad attached.

Our Team Said: The M887 we tested was a poor shotgun. We didn�t like the nose-heavy balance, the hard-to-access safety, the rattle in the receiver, and the poor machining and finish of the barrel extension and the action-bar guide ring. We didn�t like the action at all, as it was rough and sticky, in our view. That the gun did not shoot to point of aim made our opinion go from bad to worse.

The NitroMag was so deficient that we promptly reported the major issues to four officials at Remington. The reply was prompt. Remington said we had a "preproduction model" with some sort of factory mix-up. We don�t know what serial number range could be affected, or if this rises to the level of a factory recall. We invited Remington to comment in more detail, but no further information has been forthcoming from the company. We believe the problems we�ve detailed above should be covered under the manufacturer�s warranty, so we�ll return the gun to the factory and report what happens. We recognize that in high-volume manufacturing, mistakes can occur. If Remington resolves this gun�s problems under warranty and replaces it�the right course of action for a "pre-production" unit, in our view�then we�ll follow-up and see how a "production" 887 does at the range.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

TomD, I definitely like how the forend actually rakes so far back that it racks all the way back under the chamber.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

I have the advantage of being able to walk outside my house and blast away. Hadn't shot this one in a while, so I just grabbed a bunch of shells, from 8 shot field loads to 3" OO and just blew the hell out of all the cardboard and a few fire ant mounds that I found. What fun! The fire ants definitely just experienced their own version of Hiroshima.

The sights are adjustable but I'd never bothered before, wouldn't matter from 7 yards.

My hunting shotguns are a Beretta over/under, and a couple of Browning autoloaders and I don't think the Benelli will handle with them but it is far from clumsy.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

I have another question for you guys. How do you all feel about pistol grips? I keep coming across a Remington 870 Tactical with a pistol grip and the Knoxx stock. Is a pistol grip preferred over a "normal" stock only shotgun?

Also, Remington's website has an 870 Tactical that looks nothing like the Tacticals I see on Gunbroker. The one on Remington's sight does not have a pistol grip or the Knoxx grip.

Can anybody help me out here?

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Remington makes a lot of different flavors of the 870 and their website doesn't show all of them.
Mine is something like this one, but my exact model (26503) doesn't show up on their website: http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ic_7-round.asp
http://www.remington.com/images/prod...870expsyn7.jpg

These are not exotic guns, so you should be able to find one in a local gun shop or sporting goods store, rather than paying a premium on gunbroker + the shipping and FFL fees. Right now, there is a $30 rebate for the 870 Express, which should retail for $300-$350. http://www.remington.com/library/pro...all_rebate.asp

As for the pistol grip, some like em and some don't. If you can, try them both out at the range, before you buy. If they'll let you, try shooting from the shoulder, from under the arm and from the hip. If you can't shoot them at the range first, then try it at a store. I almost guarantee, they'll look at you funny when you do the shoot from the hip thang. :rofl:

A friend of mine has a Benelli M1 with a pistol grip. After a self defense class, where we shot several hundred rounds from different positions and did lots of quick reloading drills, he said he was going to buy a normal stock for the gun. The pistol grip was a uncomfortable to shoot from the hip and it made flipping the gun over for some reloading drills, more awkward. This is a guy with military experience using an M16 with pistol grip, who has hunted since he was a child and has shot that Benelli for a couple of years. It took the drills in this class to expose his problems with the grip.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

I don't like PGs on 870s, but I ran tens of thousands of rounds through one with a regular grip before I even saw a PG. The PG puts the safety at an awkward angle for me.

OTOH, a friend who trains a lot with a shotgun (I don't, I just used to hunt a lot), loves 'em. He didn't have much experience with a regular stock, so he learned to love the PG.

Either way, just buy the dang thing. You should already have a range report, not more questions. It's called Analysis Paralysis. BUY IT.:biggrin:

You can always change the stock/grip/bbl/etc. later. It only takes seconds.

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Haha you guys are great. Thanks A LOT for the help.

I called my local shop and they have TWO Remington 870 Tacticals. They are both the new ones and are all black and they each have the 18.5" barrel. They also do not have the pistol grips, nor the Knoxx Spec Ops stock. They are asking $435 for each. I might pick up both, one for me, and one for my dad's 50th birthday. Here is what they have:

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...s_tactical.asp

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

:ok::ok:
You might ask em to throw in a Remington Supercell recoil pad for each gun, your shoulder will thank you

Re: About to Buy My First Shotgun
 

Well, last week I decided to pick up two of these (one for me and one for my Dad's 50th birthday). Sorry for the bad picture quality; I took the pic with my Blackberry. Also, I apologize for my nasty, pale toes.

Stats:

Remington 870 Tactical
18.5" Barrel
2 Shot Extension
Rem Choke

It's a beautiful gun. I haven't shot it yet, but can't wait to do so. I also picked us up a couple of Blackhawk cases.

Thank you all for your help, advice, and suggestions! The next step is to get some kind of side saddle.